Captură video: AICI.
Catherine Nicholson: Hello, welcome to another edition of the Interview on France 24. My guest today is Foreign Minister of one of Ukraine’s immediate neighbors and a member of both NATO and the European Union, Bogdan Aurescu. Thank you very much for being with us.
Bogdan Aurescu: Thank you for having me.
Catherine Nicholson: I would like to start, Mr. Aurescu, by speaking about the military situation in Ukraine. There is a 40-kilometer long convoy of Russian military vehicles not far away of Kiev. What do you think Vladimir Putin is planning?
Bogdan Aurescu: Unfortunately, the situation in Ukraine, as far as the security is concerned, is becoming worse and worse. It seems that the Russian President is continuing this aggression against the sovereign and independent state of Ukraine, and this is very much unfortunate.
We have seen that this is happening despite the round of consultations which took place yesterday between the Ukrainian and the Russian diplomats and this is, indeed, very unfortunate. I think that negotiations cannot be resultative if they are under heavy fire. The situation is very difficult and I do hope that the appeals of the international community will be heard by President Putin.
Catherine Nicholson: Over the weekend, however, Vladimir Putin put his nuclear arsenal on a heighten state of readiness, the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world. A credible threat, or do you think he is saber-rattling?
Bogdan Aurescu: I think is extremely irresponsible to make a threat with the use of nuclear weapons. I don’t think that in the 21st century we should make such threats. I am not personally convinced that this would be followed by the actual use of nuclear weapons. Still, the threat of using nuclear weapons is something that is very much unacceptable and it was condemned as such by the international community. I have also condemned that, I was personally condemning that during the Foreign Affairs Council of the European Union meeting on the 27th of February and all my colleagues did the same.
Catherine Nicholson: The Ukrainian President Volodimir Zelensky has asked the West to enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine. What is your position on that?
Bogdan Aurescu: I think the position, which was already expressed by NATO, was quite clear. And it was also expressed by other NATO Allies. Doing so would mean that NATO would be involved directly in this military conflict and this cannot happen, since Ukraine is not a member of the North-Atlantic Alliance. That would mean that NATO would be directly involved in this military confrontation. Unfortunately, this is a request that cannot be met with a positive response by NATO.
Catherine Nicholson: There are more NATO troops and weaponry being deployed into Romania in the coming days. Does this make Romania safer or more vulnerable to attack? Vladimir Putin, of course, was speaking in these weeks, months, about NATO build-up up in Eastern and Central Eastern Europe as being a provocation.
Bogdan Aurescu: It cannot be seen as a provocation, it cannot be seen as an escalatory measure whatsoever. What we have done since 2014, after the illegal occupation of Crimea, on the Eastern Flank, was a response, a reaction in self-defense. It was a reaction which, in fact, is building the deterrence and defense posture of NATO of the Eastern Flank because of the actions which were undertaken by Russia.
If we compare the size of the forces, roughly 15.000 NATO troops on the Eastern Flank, with more than 150.000 Russian military in the Back Sea basin, I think it’s quite clear that what NATO is doing on the Eastern Flank is not at all a provocation towards Russia, but rather a legitimate response by the North-Atlantic Alliance to the benefit of the security of the Allies on the Eastern Flank.
We have asked for a consolidation of the posture of NATO on the Eastern Flank for quite some time, but this crisis has accelerated this process. And we continue to ask for more troops and more equipment on the territory of Romania, in the Southern part of the Eastern Flank, which is the most exposed. Romania has the longest Allied border, land border with Ukraine – we have 640 kilometers border with Ukraine, we have Crimeea at roughly 300 kilometers off the coast of Romania over the North-Western basin of the Black Sea.
And I think it’s very legitimate to have more NATO troops in Romania. The US soldiers already arrived, the French military is coming these days in Romania, other Allies, like Belgium, will deploy forces in Romania. I think it’s very important to see that Allied solidarity works. We very much welcome more Allies to come in Romania, in the Southern part of the Eastern Flank, at the Black Sea, because, indeed, we need such deterrence and defense in the face of what Russia is doing in our direct neighborhood.
Catherine Nicholson: When our reporters have spoken to people on the ground in the country, specifically, that directly border Ukraine, so Romania, Poland, of course, Hungary, Slovakia, many people are expressing fear that the war could spill over into their country. Do you believe that is a possibility?
Bogdan Aurescu: We consider that Romania and the Romanian citizens have no reason to fear, because we are covered by the security guarantees which are enshrined in Article 5 of the North-Atlantic Treaty. The collective defense, which is guaranteed by NATO and by Allied forces, is ironclad.
I think the spillover will not affect, in any case, NATO countries. But indeed, the security situation as a whole is deteriorating. That’s why, as we have discussed previously, the consolidation of the Eastern Flank is taking place and measures taken by NATO, again, are nothing but a response to the aggressive stance by Russia.
Catherine Nicholson: Within Ukraine, we have had reports from Human Rights Watch and others about the use of cluster bombs, civilians being targeted by Russian forces. Do you believe that the evidence is there, that Russia is committing these alleged war crimes?
Bogdan Aurescu: We cannot say that this is happening because we do not have eyes on the ground. But if this actually happens, this is, of course, very much against International Law, it is very much against the norms which are regulating warfare and very much against the International Humanitarian Law. That’s why the International Criminal Court in The Hague started today to examine the possibility of opening an investigation on possible war crimes and crimes against humanity during the conflict in Ukraine. And I think such an investigation is a legitimate one.
Catherine Nicholson: Just on another human rights issue, there is much concern about refugees fleeing Ukraine, a great many of them, we know, going towards Romania. Now, in total, the United Nations says that 660.000 people have fled Ukraine, in those directions. Do you know how many of them are in Romania or coming to Romania?
Bogdan Aurescu: Yes, of course we know, because we monitor very carefully the situation and we have decided to facilitate the entry in Romania of all Ukrainian citizens, that need protection.
By now, if we start counting as of the 10th of February until yesterday, more than 130.000 Ukrainian citizens have entered Romania. Almost 40,000 stayed in Romania. We have calculated the numbers of entries and exits towards other countries of the European Union, and we are very much decided to take care of these persons, who are in great need of protection. Many mothers and children are coming and we are trying, together with the civil society in Romania, with a large number of NGOs and regular Romanians, to provide assistance, to provide shelter, food, medicine and whatever is needed for them to feel safe, because Romania is a safe country.
Catherine Nicholson: You mentioned facilitating the entry of Ukrainian citizens, I want to ask you about citizens of other countries, who have been residents in Ukraine, who found themselves in Ukraine. Are they included in the people that Romania is taking in or is prepared to take in?
Bogdan Aurescu: Absolutely. We have facilitated the entry in Romania of citizens of other countries, of partner countries. There are a lot of citizens of third countries, not only from EU and NATO member states, but also from countries around the world, who asked for our support. We’ve provided support, we have facilitated their entry in Romania and then the evacuation in their countries of origin. We have also facilitated a large number of personnel of diplomatic missions from Ukraine to enter Romania and then leave for their countries. Romania is open and very much available to grant support to all those in need, to all those citizens of Ukraine and of other countries who are in distress in this country and want to get out of the country in a safe manner.
Catherine Nicholson: Now we’re recording this on the day when the President of Ukraine, Volodimir Zelensky, made an emotional appeal to the European Parliament, Commission and Council, to support Ukraine formally starting on the path to EU membership. Several Member States, including your neighbor Bulgaria, are supporting immediately granting Ukraine what’s known as Candidate State status and opening negotiations. Does Romania also support that?
Bogdan Aurescu: Yes, of course, and Romania supports the European perspective of Ukraine not only as a consequence of this crisis. We have supported this for quite some time. Romania was the first EU member state to ratify, some years ago, the Association Agreement and the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement of Ukraine with the EU.
We support not only the European perspective of Ukraine, but also of the Republic of Moldova and of Georgia, because we consider that the place of these countries is within the European Union. So, granting the European perspective, reaffirming the European perspective of these countries is a matter of priority for Romania. This was already expressed as such and underlined in a very resolute manner by President Iohannis of Romania, by myself, and we are providing concrete help in that respect. Of course, granting the European perspective is something that is deserved by these countries, but the accession itself is, indeed, a long process, which requires a lot of reforms in the candidate countries. But we are very much decided to help in this process.
Catherine Nicholson: Bogdan Aurescu, Foreign Minister of Romania, thank you very much for speaking to us on France 24.
Bogdan Aurescu: Thank you so much.
Sursa: Intervenția ministrului afacerilor externe Bogdan Aurescu la postul France 24
